The likes of Craig Sams, Marcus Williamson and Red Porphyry continue to tackle the bull on AgBioView -- a pro-GM list with over 2,000 subscribers -- regarding organic ag and golden rice. As a result, in addition to what goes out on the list, Red's also been receiving some mail directly from subscribers:
"Almost all the e-mail I receive is hostile (the truly interesting ones claim that the "real" reason I write like this is because I "must be a Jew or something")"
1. response to more organic attacks - Craig Sams
2. Re: AGBIOVIEW: Sublimity and Golden Rice - Red Porphyry
3. Scottish Crop Research Institute etc - Marcus Williamson
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1. From: Craig Sams This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Re: AGBIOVIEW: Responses Galore; Hunger Strike?
First, two quick facts. The Odwalla juice deaths were because of unpasteurised apple juice produced in an unhygienic factory that did not process any organic products. The juice was unpasteurised but not organic. The reason it was unpasteurised was purely for flavor reasons - unpasteurised juices, freshly pressed under hygienic conditions, offer more sensory appeal. Would you pasteurise orange juice that you'd just pressed at home? Organic regulations worldwide contain no prohibitions on pasteurisation, homogenisation or freezing. I stand by my statement that there is not one recorded case of E.coli O157:H7 arising from certified organic production methods. The main factor is ground beef, for whatever reason.
I am not qualified to discuss whether gene splicing is the same as natural breeding. I bow the judgment of two molecular biologists, Dr. Michael Antoniou of Guy's Hospital in London and Dr. Ricarda Steinbrecher, who I have heard speak on many occasions. They both assert that there is a world of difference.
Andrew Apel asks me: What I do not understand is: if these people suffer poverty and starvation, why don't they at least grow enough to feed themselves? If you were an unsubsidised farmer in Nebraska with the fat cat subsidy-guzzling Iowa farmers selling all their corn and beans to your erstwhile customers in Nebraska, how would you feel if somebody told you to just grow enough to feed yourself? Yeah, sell the combine harvester for ten bucks and burn the barn board by board to keep warm in winter. It only makes sense because it's about people far away who talk and act different.
Mr. Avery, I totally agree that all farmers should minimise faecal contamination of their produce. I don't think I've ever implied otherwise. (I think I mentioned some time ago that the main source of faecal contamination of field vegetables in the UK is pigeons and other birds). Organic regulations do not permit the use of uncomposted manure - composting effectively eliminates E.coli organisms. This reflects the organic producer's greater level of concern about this risk. Conventional farmers in the UK routinely spread uncomposted manure from dairy cattle fed on the high concentrate diet that favors the development of E.coli O157:H7. I heartily disapprove of this practice.
I wasn't extolling any vegetarian utopia, just making the point that US public health policy recommends levels of meat and animal fat consumption that are lower than the prevailing levels, so that a reduction in the intake of meat and dairy would not lead to malnutrition or suffering, just reduce obesity and associated health problems. A look at the meat consumption levels of some affluent Asian societies, such as Singapore, show that even when income levels reach those of comparable consumers in the US, meat consumption plateaus out at a level quite a bit lower than the US.
And Malcolm Livingstone asks "whether anyone, other than those who can make political capital out of it, even read work like Pusztai's?" Pusztai's work for the Rowett Institute was to cement the success of a joint venture between the Rowett and the owner of the potato intellectual property. Pusztai was the 'safe pair of hands' whose reliability and high international standing would help accelerate the regulatory approval process. That's why everyone got so upset when he came up with the wrong answers. The political capital came a long time later, mostly from people who probably didn't read Pusztai's work, but so what?
Craig Sams
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2. From: Red Porphyry This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Re: AGBIOVIEW: Sublimity and Golden Rice
To answer Abigail first. I'm not in any way irate that golden rice isn't a magic bullet for solving the problem of VAD in Asia. My point is that it's not, contrary to article after article claiming otherwise, articles which are regularly posted to this list (as any careful reading of the list archives will show). The public is being openly deceived by these repeatedly false claims that golden rice is "rich in vitamin A" and eating it is *the* solution to VAD in Asia. In fact, a new article has just been posted on this list (msg # 964) by one Susan Smith, an article that makes the following incredible statements:
"GM food scientists already developed a yellow rice, or "golden" rice, that is rich in vitamin A and iron and helps prevent anemia and blindness, especially in children. Farmers in developing countries who adopt these crops could help whole populations avoid serious nutritional deficiencies."
It would seem that golden rice is now not only "rich" in vitamin A, but it has also become "rich" in iron. (If this is so, then Potrykus has *really* been holding out on us). The fact of the matter is that golden rice contains no iron (so it can't do anything to prevent anemia) and and it is not "rich" in vitamin A (as even Potrykus himself says). It currently only produces a very modest amount of beta-carotene (a maximum of 1.6 micrograms per 1 gm (dry weight) of rice), the production of beta-carotene is highly variable, and the trait does not yet "breed true".
While even this amount *is* a real scientific achievement, golden rice is no carrot, yet the public is being openly deceived by all too many pro-biotech scientists and "science" writers that it is (through, among other things, the deceptive use of such words as "rich"--to the public, "rich" means "as rich as a carrot"). Now we're beginning to see demonstrably and deliberately false claims made that golden rice is also "rich" in iron and will help prevent anemia as well as VAD.
Heck, why stop there? Let's also claim that golden rice is also "rich" in iodine and folic acid, too. After all, I'm the only contributor to this group who even bothered to actually go back and *read* Potrykus' original Science paper on golden rice and then take the trouble to calculate just how much of the RDA of vitamin A the average Asian can be expected to obtain from eating both the maximum (300 gm dry weight) and the most likely (100 gm dry weight) amounts of golden rice.
Given that no other contributor to this list, who are experts in the field of ag biotech, did this, but merely accepted without question whatever claims about golden rice came down the pipe, it's *extremely* unlikely that the public at large will act any differently. As far as the public is concerned, golden rice is as rich in vitamin A as a carrot and is will soon also be rich (as a 6 oz beefsteak, perhaps?) in iron. In my opinion, pro-biotech scientists need to start making some attempt to put golden rice in its proper perspective and context for the public. If you refrain from doing so, the only logical conclusion then is that Goebbels ideas about marketing actually have some merit to them.
BTW, Abigail, what's your opinion of Asians eating carrots and fortifying their food and cooking oils with vitamin A (like Caucasians do with milk, for example)? Do these ideas have any merit to them, or are they inappropriate for Asian peoples?
To answer Andrew, first of all, I have no "cohorts". Almost all the e-mail I receive is hostile (the truly interesting ones claim that the "real" reason I write like this is because I "must be a Jew or something" :-) ). The current discussion of golden rice may no longer be sublime, but it's far from ridiculous, I assure you. You're basic point, however, is an honest one:
"the fact is, if golden rice increases vitamin A consumption, that is what it does, and that is something that is needed. That makes it better than less vitamin A consumption."
To wit, golden rice can be one [small, IMO] piece in an overall solution to the problem of VAD in Asia. I just knew it would take a Hudson Institute man to finally put golden rice in its proper context. :-) BTW, I'm glad to see that in addition to people from the Hudson Institute and the Hoover Institute, people from the Cato Institute are also taking an interest in ag biotech and GM foods. Hopefully, in the weeks and months to come, someone from the Pioneer will also weigh in on the subject.
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3. Scottish Crop Research Institute
Mr Smetacek
It is hardly surprising that the SCRI wishes to denigrate organic food and promote GM food, as its director John Hillman is also a board member of the BioIndustry Association.
Please see here for more information :
http://www.gmfoodnews.com/gmspin.html
I challenge you to find *any* criticism of organic food which does not originate from the biotech industry and organisations sponsored by it.
Perhaps instead of criticising organic food, you could spend your energy in trying to find evidence of any independent safety testing which has been carried out on GM foods. I've been looking for 3+ years and haven't been able to find any.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks & regards Marcus Williamson http://www.gmfoodnews.com/
From: Andura Smetacek <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> Subject: Organic food poisonings...